Pokémon Pokemon SwSh Review Mega Thread

There's been a lot of controversy around Sword and Shield as of late, with some people seemingly only seeing the positives and others seemingly only seeing the negatives. For this week's discussion, we'd like to take a look at the older games.

Pick at least one game that you've played in the franchise's history from Pokémon Red to Pokémon Ultra Moon (not Sword/Shield!) and let us know something you liked about it, as well as something you disliked about the same game!

This topic is designed in the hopes that everyone will be able to find and pick out at least one thing in both categories (positives and negatives) in a game from the series' history. As such, posts that focus heavily on one category and not the other may be removed, as will comments about Sword/Shield.

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#GameFreakLied Story Is Starting to Be Picked Up By Gaming News Sites

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 03:34 AM PST

Here are all the sites so far that have published an article on the trend (#11 in the US as of 8:40am EST with 36K posts):

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/11/13/why-game-freak-lied-is-trending-on-twitter--pokemon-sword-shield/

https://www.vg247.com/2019/11/13/pokemon-sword-and-shield-hashtag-gamefreaklied-3d-model-leaks/

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/fans-criticise-pokemon-sword-shield-as-reuse-of-models-is-confirmed/

https://nintendosoup.com/gamefreaklied-trending-worldwide-on-twitter/

https://egamingdesk.com/nintendo-switch/gamefreaklied-pokemon-dev-under-serious-fire/

Based on the first few articles to come out on the subject, it seems like the media will continue to have mixed responses to our concerns, and some will mischaracterize or even try to discredit our outrage.

Remember: keep posts and comments civil, stick to the facts, do not threaten anyone's life, and do not make it personal beyond expressing how you personally feel about Sw/Sh.

And lastly, good/bad news does not matter as much at this point. So long as the word is getting out, it is going to hurt Game Freak's sales for the games. That is the end goal.

EDIT: The first article by a major news site (from what I've seen) has appeared:

https://www.newsweek.com/gamefreaklied-trend-twitter-pokemon-sword-shield-data-leak-reused-models-1471515?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

If anymore appear, let me know and I will add it.

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Something the reviews have made clear: A new Pokémon can never be bad, but with the way GF is going, it can never be *great*

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 08:04 AM PST

Reviews are out now and as we'd hoped wouldn't be the case, they're glowing. Sw/Sh is currently sitting at 81% on Metacritic, you wouldn't know there was any drama surrounding release at all.

Most reviews are saying the same thing. It's charming, fun, cute, imaginative, lighthearted, and nostalgic. It innovates in some areas and it's a back step in others but overall it's a good game. Some even saying this is the best game in the series so far.

The problem I've realized, is that this could be applied to literally any game in the series. This is the baseline review of any Pokémon game. Catching Pokémon and journeying to become the champion is inherently fun. The core of what you do in Pokémon is what made it a phenomenon. You literally could not fuck this up. These aren't reviews for Sw/Sh, they're reviews for Pokémon as a whole.

I think this is also why there's such a divide in the community. Despite all the problems, the cuts, the poor optimization, the lack of innovation, Pokémon is and always will be fun. And that's why so many people defend it still, because Gamefreak can do whatever they want with the series but as long as that core of catching Pokémon, building a team, and fighting to become the champion remains unchanged, Pokémon will always be a good game.

But it'll never be great.

That's the problem with this new Gen. It solidifies that "good" is all this series will ever be. It will always just be 8/10. Their first console outing was their chance to reinvent the series and make that vision we all had as children of playing a full expanded Pokémon game a reality. But Sw/Sh is just another game in the series.

We won't get our Super Mario 64, our Breath of the Wild, our Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. A new Pokémon game will never be touted as one of the best games of all time, let alone of the year. The reviews show that people are satisfied with Pokémon just being "good". We will never have a great Pokémon game again. And that just makes me sad.

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The majority of Pokemon players are over 18 years old: data and sources inside

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 05:53 AM PST

I see a lot of people, including GameFreak themselves, speaking about Pokemon as if it's a game just for kids and justifying decisions based on that, but actually practically all available data shows that most players are over 18 years old. This makes sense because for any franchise, as the franchise ages, so does its playerbase.

Pokemon Red/Blue came out more than 23 years ago. A child who was 6 years old when Pokemon red came out would now be 29+ years old.

Let's look at some sources to back this up.

1st source Nintendo Press Briefing:

Nintendo press briefing: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2017/170201_2e.pdf

"According to our latest data, we have seen that the ratio of players in their 20s and 30s has risen for Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Mooncompared to past Pokémon titles for Nintendo 3DS"

This by itself doesn't tell us the exact number, just that there are lots of players in their 20s and 30s, so let's look at more data.

2nd source Pokemon Go Player Data:

Every source of Pokemon Go player data has the vast majority of players as over 18.

https://medium.com/@sm_app_intel/pok%C3%A9mon-go-demographics-the-evolving-player-mix-of-a-smash-hit-game-b9099d5527b7 : 78% over 18 years old

https://newzoo.com/insights/articles/analysis-pokemon-go/ : 68% over 20 years old

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10209-019-00694-7 : 82% over 20 years old

There's some variation in the exact percentage, but basically all the surveys and data I've seen agree that over 50% of players are over 18 years old. This should be of no surprise to anyone who's walked outside and seen people play Pokemon Go. In Japan personally, the vast majority of people I see playing Pokemon Go are in their late 20s or early 30s, which would coincide with them being children with red/blue came out.

Is that only Pokemon Go? What about other Pokemon games?

3rd source Pokemon Mainline Player surveys:

Sun/Moon: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/187276-pokemon-sun/74302335 - 85% over 18 years old.

Twitch Players Pokemon Survey: https://imgur.com/a/BTJlD - Vast majority over 18 years old

The surveys for other Pokemon data also show a majority over 18 years old.

All of the data available shows that the majority of Pokemon players are adults. This matches the intuitive understanding that children who started Pokemon get naturally older and are now adults. The next source shows this trend the most clearly.

4th source Change in age group demographics from purchase data for Diamond/Pearl to Black/White

https://imgur.com/a/OMnK9A5 <- easy to view imgur link

The graphs here, which come from Media Create, a Japanese company that tracks sales data, shows the aging playerbase trend extremely clearly. In Diamond/Pearl the playerbase is still young, and in each successive game the playerbase gets a bit older

Conclusions

The data clearly shows that the playerbase is aging along with the franchise, and that the majority of players are over 18. In fact the largest demographic is 20s/early 30s.

To emphasize, I couldn't find a single survey, source, or piece of data that showed less than 50% for the over 18 demographic in recent Pokemon games.

In this light, attemps to justify design designs by saying Pokemon is a "children's game" are extremely misguided. For example, GameFreak has once again made the difficulty in Sword/Shield easier than previous games by stating that children want immediate rewards. Even if this were true (popular children's games like Minecraft and Fortnite certainly don't follow this rule), young children now are not being drawn to Pokemon anyways, and simplifying the difficulty to the point that Pokemon basically becomes a mindless cookie clicker will only alienate the now adult playerbase that aged along with the franchise.

Regardless of GameFreak's original intentions, Pokemon is now a game played mostly by adults, and they should recognize it as such and not make changes that needlessly alienate their loyal playerbase.

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Thank You Gamefreak

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 09:35 AM PST

https://imgur.com/QyYorVE

Thank you Gamefreak for putting so much love into these games. Thank you designing such amazing box legendaries with such unique designs. Thank you designing a region that is not based on Japan this time around. Thank you for the awesome designs in this generation. Thank you for improving on previous features along with making new ones. Thank you for creating such a soundtrack that's always fun to listen to. Thank you for putting so much thought and care into the story. Thank you for setting these games up as having the best villain we have ever had. Thank you for such an expansive post game. Thank you for taking such a huge risk that ending up paying off in the end. Anyway this wraps up my appreciation post for Pokemon Black and White, pic unrelated.

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Japanese community is catching on to #GameFreakLied -- they still haven't been given an official announcement about the dex cut.

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 02:11 AM PST

Just had this conversation on Twitter, the deception is totally unacceptable. We are 2 days away from launch and Japan has not been publicly told about how all pokemon won't be returning to this generation.

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#GameFreakLied Is Trending inJapan!

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 02:44 AM PST

I honestly don't know what to say. I'm so proud of all of you for sticking to this. We may have just gotten through to Japanese social media and taught them what Game Freak has been refusing to tell them for months. This could seriously change everything. I really can't think you all enough! Well done to all of you for helping spread this.

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One culled Pokémon family every day until Dexit is reversed - Day 9

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 01:04 AM PST

https://imgur.com/a/7HkPfJN

025 Sandshrew - 026 Sandslash

Full gallery

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IGN gave SwSh 9.3 while they gave Luigi's Mansion 3 8.3, it's unbelievable

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 08:18 AM PST

LM3 has been worked on since the Wii U days, for over 4 years, it's more polished graphically, actually it has one the best graphics among the AAA exclusive, there's a lot more content and a very few bugs, but yet IGN gave it a lower score after a very good reviews, they didn't even mentioned the cons and flaws.

While on the other hand SwSh got a 9.3 (!) for a not polished game with graphical problems, some weird bugs and less content.
IGN described some of these problems in the game in their review but still gave it a higher score.

How is it even possible? it's just not fair.

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#GameFreakLied Is Top Hashtag in 4 Countries, a World Wide Trend, and Rising In Japan!!!

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 03:02 AM PST

The hashtag has topped in the US, UK, Australia. I honestly don't know what to say. I'm so proud of all of you for sticking to this. We may have just gotten through to Japanese social media and taught them what Game Freak has been refusing to tell them for months. This could seriously change everything. I really can't think you all enough! Well done to all of you for helping spread this.

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#ThankYouArlo

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 04:08 AM PST

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5skcy9AT4pw

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#GameFreakLied is Trending on Twitter

Posted: 12 Nov 2019 09:19 PM PST

Basically title. We've gotten some major whiplash in just a few days. We've gone from #ThankYouGameFreak to #GameFreakLied in just like two days.

If you're left unaware, basically GF said they had to redo all the animations and models for SWSH, but recent datamine has shown that the models are just brought over.

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[Discussion] The difference between IGN's (9.3) and GameCentrals (7.0) review is astounding. There's a clear difference in the review perspectives. Links inside.

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 06:16 AM PST

GameCentral: https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/13/pokemon-sword-and-shield-review-gonna-miss-em-all-11090179/

IGN: https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/11/13/pokemon-sword-and-shield-review

I also enjoy the little blurb near the top of the ign review that states "If you buy something through this post, IGN may get a share of the sale."

Edit: For people asking, here's the Eurogamer review as well, which gave high marks to SM and USUM: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-11-13-pokemon-sword-and-shield-review-a-shadow-of-a-former-great

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#gamefreaklied is a fact, not an opinion.

Posted: 12 Nov 2019 10:30 PM PST

http://imgur.com/gallery/nUzROLa (OC)

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#GameFreakLied is now #2 in the US on trending on Twitter

Posted: 12 Nov 2019 10:56 PM PST

Since they wanted to try and silent us with their #ThankYouGamefreak nonsense it's incredible to see in just a few hours this reach #2 above their own hashtag. Keep it up everyone they can't ignore us if it's on the front page of reddit and now Twitter. Keep tweeting out. Make sure to tag their twitter page

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All of GameFreak's decisions can be explained by a philosophy of telling people how they *should* play the games rather than letting them choose.

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 07:15 AM PST

I know that a lot of the criticism about this game has been discussed to death but I just wanted to take a minute to focus on some of the things that have been revealed about the game, what GameFreak has said about them, and how it all belies a troubling shift in philosophy for GameFreak over the past few years.

In my opinion, older Pokemon games gave players a great sense of freedom, even down to the way that many of the areas were designed, with completely optional offshoots and hidden areas. In the early generations, you could even sometimes complete the gyms out of order! Now, the games have frequently come under criticism for essentially being "hallways" you are guided down, with cutscenes every few minutes. Most of the sense of exploration or discovery has been stripped out in favor of guiding the player along the "proper" path.

I believe this is due to an odd, paternalistic sensibility that has crept into GameFreak's design decisions. GameFreak has fallen into a trap of thinking that because most or a majority of people like a certain thing, that that must mean that that way is the best and so we'll just make it that way! Rather than give players the option of doing it that way.

The XP share is a great example. It's been able to be toggled on/off for generations now, and many players preferred to keep it off in order to give themselves some sense of challenge in a game that has become easier every generation. Now, it's permanently stuck on. When asked about it, here's what GameFreak said: "Those who have it turned off want to train one specific Pokemon. We thought: is there a way to achieve that? There is, simply by putting the rest of your Pokémon in the PC."

This is a very silly design philosophy because it of course ignores the players who didn't use it for that reason. I am sure the data suggests that most players do in fact use XP share. That is not a reason to remove the option for others who don't want it. GameFreak's mistake was assuming they knew why people wanted to play another way, and then said "no, you shouldn't do that. Just play this way!" Of course, it's also possible GameFreak 100% realized people used turning off XP share as a kind of difficulty modifier, and removed it, just like they haven't included a "challenging" difficulty since Black/White 2. Again, it's this thought of "you shouldn't want to play that way."

Going back to ORAS, Masuda was asked if maybe a difficulty slider will return. His response was: "We created a "balanced" game that was suited for our time and age, where everyone is very busy and young people have various means of entertainment. Using smartphones and other devices they can access a great number of games, so the time they dedicate to a single game is less than in the past."

Again, GameFreak makes a general statement about how they feel most people play, and decides catering to that is good enough. Even if a minority of people don't want to play that way, and really appreciate difficulty settings, that doesn't matter. The game isn't made for those people.

Same interview, Masuda is asked why there is no Battle Frontier, replaced with a light postgame:

"This question is connected with my previous answer. We didn't put the BF in ORAS for this very reason. Interviewer's note: In short he means that they didn't include the BF because only a very small part of the players would have fully appreciated and made use of this feature; nowadays players get bored and frustrated more easily and they aren't interested in things that are so demanding/challenging."

The entire experience is for this supposed "smartphone-obsessed" type of player who just wants a short, easy, on-rails game spoonfed to them so they can go back to their phone. To be clear I don't even think GameFreak is right about this. But rather than just include options for people who maybe don't want that, they create their entire experience around a vision of catering to this person.

When you start to look at just about every design decision, it comes from that same place. Something like the Wild Area - a pretty great concept that could have injected that sense of freedom. Except, wait, you're locked out of catching Pokemon of a certain level. No, we wouldn't want a player having too much freedom. You must do this gym and this gym and this gym and then maybe you can go to this area and catch a monster you want at the appropriate time we tell you.

Even in the comments about Dexit, you can see this attitude. Ohmori said, in response to the controversy "Of course, up to now it has not been possible to encounter every pokémon in every game, so people had to transfer it from old games via Pokémon Bank to the new game, for example... the way of playing is actually not very different from before with Pokémon Bank: until now you have always been able to meet only the pokémon of a certain region." GameFreak essentially says "oh, but you SHOULD just want to play with the regional dex."

Why would you want to transfer? You cannot meet those Pokemon anyways.

Everything, even down to Pokemon selection, just looks at the most popular, down-the-pipe way to make the game. Even something like including Charizard but not Blastoise and Venasaur or any of the other starters - it's clear they looked at what was the most popular and just went with that.

Then there's the weird paternalism that shows up in frankly just dumbfounding decisions. Like tying sound control to a key item. Or locking you out of soft resetting for a shiny starter. "You shouldn't want to play the game that way." GameFreak's control over the player just creeps in through every crack.

Here's the thing: Even if GameFreak were right on every single point - a majority of people just focus on regional dex with no transfers. A majority of people don't care about exploration or freedom and are fine with hallways. A majority of people all use XP share. A majority of people will never want a harder difficulty. A majority of people don't make it to or don't care about postgame. A majority of people just want Pikachu, Eevee and Charizard and who really cares about the rest. Even if they were right on every single point. The fact is that each of those decisions, when you remove options, leaves everyone else in the cold. Everyone who has a different preference feels slighted by at least one of those things. For a lot of hardcore players, they may feel slighted by all of them. Someone might be in the majority on four or five or six of those points, but for each one they are not in the majority, that doesn't have an option for them to play it a different way, the game feels compromised.

GameFreak needs to realize that people play Pokemon for different reasons. Everyone has different things that they care about. And so the design philosophy should not be "hmm, who is our average Pokemon player?" and then create a game aimed at them. It should be "we should give our players the most freedom possible." The games used to include a lot of that. But somewhere along the way GameFreak became convinced that they know best, and that's how we ended up where we are.

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Eurogamer’s review is quite harsh: they were definitely expecting more

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 07:30 AM PST

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-11-13-pokemon-sword-and-shield-review-a-shadow-of-a-former-great

Basically link. They definitely had high expectations going in and it's definitely a very harsh review. They acknowledge Dexit but say Dexit isn't the main issue - issues run towards the base rushed feeling of the game. Lack of content, dungeons, and it feels bare bones to them.

To their credit, they do like the Wild Area (at first), some of the new quality of life changes, and think the new Pokémon are great.

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For the sake of this franchise, I really hope Sword and Shield flop.

Posted: 12 Nov 2019 09:51 PM PST

It hurts to say that about a franchise I've been a fan of for as long as I can remember. These were supposed to be the games we've dreamed of of years. The games that would lay the groundwork and set the bar for what a proper console Pokemon game would be. Instead, all we get is a half-baked 3DS game pretending to be a console game.

The Switch is infinitely more capable than the 3DS ever was, and yet they can't even meet the amount of pokemon coded into a 3DS game. The Switch is a console that won't try to kill itself when running double battles, but they can't even be bothered to bring back battle formats the retired in gen 7. The pop in is atrocious, a lot of the battle backgrounds are basically just recolors of the void from Sonic Generations, and the "animations" are incredibly mediocre for what they promised.

When games like Pokemon Stadium, Coliseum, XD, and Battle Revolution exist, people are inevitably going to compare those to Sword and Shield and see how those excel in what SwSh fail in. Pokemon has forgotten its roots, and it is beyond disappointing that this is now the best we can expect from the developers of the mainline games that are responsible for such great games like HGSS and BW2.

I hope this can be a learning experience for Game Freak and TPCI. If they learn nothing and fail to improve on what they did wrong, this franchise is screwed.

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"We've cut the dex for better animations" Yet the game world freezes when you try to climb a ladder

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 04:56 AM PST

https://streamable.com/3k31v

This is laughable.

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#GameFreakLied

Posted: 12 Nov 2019 05:46 PM PST

It needs to be said. After the recent news that has come out proving once and for all they lied about having to cut the dex to make the models from scratch, this needs to be spread around. We cannot trust Game Freak anymore. For this, I propose my own hashtag. Share the recent posts about the subject and use this hashtag to get it going.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJN8ovwUEAE91LG.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJN8oclUUAE9AhG.jpg

TL;DR: Game Freak claimed they had to cut pokemon from the gams due to having remake models from scratch, but these models show that the ones in SwSh are the exact same as the ones on the 3DS.

Edit: Trending on Twitter! Keep it up!

Another edit: I.....I honestly don't know what to say. I'm so proud of all of you. This is majorly trending and the best part is Japan FINALLY knows about the cuts! (It's trending in Japan!) Well done everyone!

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And they don't stop coming!

Posted: 12 Nov 2019 06:41 PM PST

I'm OC for this meme, I hope you all enjoy!

https://imgur.com/a/rDN9n6X

Edit: Thanks for everyone for sharing this all across other social media platforms, let's keep the #GameFreakLied going!

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For me, Metro / Game Center review hit the spot: fans will enjoy, like they would enjoy anything Pokémon, but the franchise deserves better and money is not an excuse

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 08:09 AM PST

Key excerpts from the review:

The problem is that Game Freak is actually a very small developer and with Sword and Shield it's obvious that they're getting out of their depth. They're only used to making portable-only games and for most of the time that's exactly what Sword and Shield looks like. Some areas are better than others, but the majority of the game just looks like an upscaled 3DS game, with very simplistic textures and geometry. It's never quite as visually bland as something like Fire Emblem: Three Houses, but it seems impossible to believe that it's running on the same system as the gorgeous Luigi's Mansion 3.

Given its popularity and the potential of the concept Pokémon deserves – one might say demands – to be realised with the highest production values possible. This should be the equivalent of Grand Theft Auto, or at least a big-name Western role-player, in terms of budget and online options but most of the time it looks and operates like a mid-budget indie game.

The lack of voice-acting alone is acutely embarrassing, as characters' lips flap about uselessly during cut scenes, whose lowkey music often leaves you watching the game almost in silence. Game Freak's excuse is that they don't have time to sort out all the different languages and voice-actors in time for a global release and we're sure from their point of view that's true. But money should be no object here, and yet this gives the impression of being one of the most cheaply made Switch exclusives so far.

Pokémon is such an intrinsically entertaining concept it's infuriating to see it not reach its full potential. On portable consoles it usually did but it is not making anything close to full use of the Switch. Even if you ignore the technical issues there's a distinct lack of new features beyond dynamaxing and the Wild Area, with no other major gimmicks or complications.

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LEAK - Confirmed Models Are Re-Used

Posted: 12 Nov 2019 03:32 PM PST

Dataminers are already ripping the models and comparing them over on 4Chan.

White is SwSh, Black is SM.

Bulbasaur

Noibat

Triangle count

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Please everyone, stop bringing Satoru Iwata into this.

Posted: 13 Nov 2019 08:32 AM PST

I've seen enough.

Stop claiming that Iwata would be ashamed of Game Freak. Stop putting words in the mouth of a dead man. Stop claiming that the franchise "met the beginning of the end" when he passed. He had cancer, he didn't turn his back on the franchise willingly.

I'm not even going to propose what he would think to that statement. Let him rest in peace. If you are putting words into the mouth of a dead man to fuel your arguments, you're being incredibly disrespectful, and I implore you to take a step back and evaluate.

My own stance on SWSH is that there are clearly shortcomings that need to be voiced, but do not regress to using Iwata as a puppet for your ideals, regardless of what he did in the past for Game Freak.

Please remember that criticism without toxicity is more valid than criticism with toxicity.

/end rant

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"A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever." - Shigeru Miyamoto

Posted: 12 Nov 2019 05:14 PM PST

The new games are missing a lot from what we've seen: they need more game balance with leveling, some of the animations look like placeholders (and some look nice), the textures are plain, and the Wild Area feels more procedurally generated than thoughtfully curated. This isn't about Dexit or peak Charizard. It is about an unfinished game. It is what I imagine Breath of the Wild looked like a year or two before its release.

Once upon a time, Game Freak took the time they needed to get their games right. Red and Green took about six years. Gold and Silver were delayed at least twice and ended up being fantastic releases that took advantage of all the system had to offer: color (GBC), real-time night/day clock, the link cable of course, and Crystal even added online battles and trades six years before the GTS.

Game Freak needs another year to refine the gameplay concepts and fill in the world to be more alive and fun. The holiday 2019 deadline may be a valid excuse for the rushed games, but even the most understandable excuses in the world don't change the final product.

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#Gamefreak lied is rising on Twitter, and fans around the world are responding.

Posted: 12 Nov 2019 11:10 PM PST

I've seen tweets going out in multiple different languages, even reaching as far as Japan already. A week ago, I thought our effort would be pointless, but I'm starting to see some hope for a silver lining in the future. I think Pokemon may still have a chance to change for the better. It's too early to give up on everything.

Please don't lose hope. Your passion for Pokemon isn't worthless, and I hope our community can come to see that we need to work towards a better future together.

Edit: ahh shoot, messed up the title.

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Breaking News

Pokémon

Wednesday, November 13, 2019

Pokémon Pokemon SwSh Review Mega Thread

Pokémon Pokemon SwSh Review Mega Thread

1st source Nintendo Press Briefing:

2nd source Pokemon Go Player Data:

3rd source Pokemon Mainline Player surveys:

4th source Change in age group demographics from purchase data for Diamond/Pearl to Black/White

Conclusions

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